[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":422},["ShallowReactive",2],{"site-settings":3,"article:\u002Fresources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fforever-designers-on-the-record-zierhut-jones":16,"article-surround:\u002Fresources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fforever-designers-on-the-record-zierhut-jones":416},{"id":4,"description":5,"email":6,"extension":7,"footerNote":8,"legalNotice":9,"locale":10,"meta":11,"name":12,"stem":13,"url":14,"__hash__":15},"settings\u002Fsettings.yml","Compare World of Warcraft realms by expansion, region, population and play style.","listings@realmlist.org","yml","An independent realm directory.","Not affiliated with Blizzard Entertainment.","en",{},"RealmList","settings","https:\u002F\u002Frealmlist.org","QXaYspLUSxnrVumL6oFir6PInhNsRw-yJchxEYSe1AU",{"id":17,"title":18,"author":19,"body":20,"category":369,"description":370,"draft":371,"extension":372,"featured":371,"meta":373,"navigation":374,"path":375,"publishedAt":376,"seo":377,"sitemap":378,"sources":383,"stem":407,"tags":408,"updatedAt":414,"__hash__":415},"articles\u002Fresources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fforever-designers-on-the-record-zierhut-jones.md","Forever's Designers on the Record: Two Talent Builds, Four Group Sizes, and the Parts of Azeroth They Are Keeping Shut","RealmList Editorial",{"type":21,"value":22,"toc":357},"minimark",[23,44,47,52,67,70,96,103,107,110,116,133,140,144,160,163,171,175,186,189,202,206,217,227,231,238,241,245,252,312,316,322,333,336,346,351],[24,25,26,30,31,35,36,39,40,43],"p",{},[27,28,29],"em",{},"World of Warcraft: Forever"," opens in less than 24 hours. The most detailed thing anyone at Blizzard has said about how it is supposed to play is an interview IGN published on ",[32,33,34],"strong",{},"October 27",", in which principal game designer ",[32,37,38],{},"Kris Zierhut"," and lead Classic designer ",[32,41,42],{},"Tim Jones"," talked for a long time about philosophy rather than patch notes.",[24,45,46],{},"Most of the coverage of that interview — including our own — went to the headline number: roughly one major update every four months. This is the rest of it, and it is the part that decides what your first month in the game actually looks like.",[48,49,51],"h2",{"id":50},"the-pitch-an-alternate-history-not-a-museum","The pitch: an alternate history, not a museum",[24,53,54,55,58,59,62,63,66],{},"Zierhut frames the subscription as three pillars. ",[32,56,57],{},"Classic"," is the museum — the 2004–2008 loop preserved as it was. ",[32,60,61],{},"Modern"," is the endgame-first live game. ",[32,64,65],{},"Forever"," is the third thing: what the original team would have built if, instead of opening the Dark Portal and going to Outland, they had stayed in the original world and kept developing it.",[24,68,69],{},"Four pillars decide what gets changed:",[71,72,73,80,85,91],"ol",{},[74,75,76,79],"li",{},[32,77,78],{},"The world is the main character."," Local stories you find by exploring; the journey matters as much as the destination; new content keeps being added to the levelling path, not just the cap.",[74,81,82],{},[32,83,84],{},"The world always feels full.",[74,86,87,90],{},[32,88,89],{},"Approachable and familiar"," for a 2026 newcomer, while still reading as classic to someone who was there.",[74,92,93],{},[32,94,95],{},"Nurture and protect social experiences.",[24,97,98,99,102],{},"The second one has a specific origin. Zierhut says the team was heavily inspired by ",[32,100,101],{},"Hardcore",", where every zone feels populated because dying means rerolling — you are always back in the early zones with everyone else. Forever is trying to reproduce that deliberately through the Legacy System and new mid-level content: a new level-30 zone or level-40 dungeon is meant to be experienced on a new character, not steamrolled by a 60.",[48,104,106],{"id":105},"unsolving-the-game","\"Unsolving\" the game",[24,108,109],{},"This is the most quotable idea in the interview, and the one with the most consequences:",[111,112,113],"blockquote",{},[24,114,115],{},"Players who have played the classic era for 21 or 22 years know the perfect levelling route, which trade skills to take, which talents, which gear. Zierhut's stated goal is that Forever should still be legible to those players, but that the standard optimal answer should stop being correct by default.",[24,117,118,119,122,123,126,127,132],{},"Two days after this interview, at a media roundtable on October 29, associate game director ",[32,120,121],{},"Chris Gierach"," told Korean press that the team is ",[32,124,125],{},"deliberately keeping dungeon and raid loot out of the client"," for the same reason — to ship a game that is not solved at launch. We covered that in our ",[128,129,131],"a",{"href":130},"\u002Fresources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fforever-roundtable-origin-loot-hidden-raid-difficulty","October 29 roundtable briefing",", and it is worth reading the two statements together: the design intent is stated twice, by two different developers, six days apart.",[24,134,135,136,139],{},"What it does ",[27,137,138],{},"not"," mean is that any of it has been proven to work. Nobody has played Forever at 60.",[48,141,143],{"id":142},"endgame-runs-at-four-sizes-and-there-is-a-reason","Endgame runs at four sizes, and there is a reason",[24,145,146,147,150,151,154,155,159],{},"Zierhut and Jones describe four group sizes: ",[32,148,149],{},"5-player dungeons",", then ",[32,152,153],{},"10-, 20- and 40-player raids",". Blizzard's own ",[128,156,158],{"href":157},"\u002Fresources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fwow-forever-first-raid-tier-barrow-deeps-hyjal-onyxia","raid overview"," confirms the launch tier lands exactly on that spread — Barrow Deeps at 10, Hyjal Summit at 20 and Onyxia's Lair at 40, all opening December 9.",[24,161,162],{},"The reason given is social, not mathematical. Zierhut's example: if your Friday 10-player group is one short, a game with only 10-player raids leaves you in trade chat. A game where you also raid with 20 and 40 people every week means you already know someone in a different group who can fill the slot. The size spread is there to make your social network redundant on purpose.",[24,164,165,166,170],{},"That is a design argument rather than a tuning fact, and it sits against the ",[128,167,169],{"href":168},"\u002Fresources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fwow-forever-nine-dungeons-official-preview","nine new dungeons"," that carry levels 13 to 60 at five players each.",[48,172,174],{"id":173},"talents-are-a-commitment-with-one-concession-at-launch","Talents are a commitment — with one concession at launch",[24,176,177,178,181,182,185],{},"Forever ships with ",[32,179,180],{},"dual specialization",": you get two talent builds and can keep both ready. Blizzard's official class deep dives of September 30 put the unlock at ",[32,183,184],{},"level 40"," and confirm that changing talents, Legacy talents included, happens at a class trainer in a major city.",[24,187,188],{},"What Zierhut rules out is everything past that. Per-point respecs in the field are explicitly rejected — his stated worry is that it becomes an expectation that you rebuild your talents for every boss pull, which would make Forever feel like a different game. A third specialization is not ruled out for the future, but he says the team does not need one now.",[24,190,191,192,196,197,201],{},"We covered the deep dives in detail ",[128,193,195],{"href":194},"\u002Fresources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fwow-forever-class-deep-dives-dual-spec-level-40","when they landed",", including the respec pricing that ",[128,198,200],{"href":199},"\u002Fresources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fforever-techradar-interview-classes-races-summons","TechRadar was told"," will climb quickly at launch rather than staying at the beta's 1-silver convenience price. Two builds at 40, expensive changes otherwise: plan your second spec around what you actually intend to do.",[48,203,205],{"id":204},"professions-are-built-to-make-you-need-someone","Professions are built to make you need someone",[24,207,208,209,212,213,216],{},"The interview describes professions as the realisation of ",[32,210,211],{},"Eric Dodds'"," original vision for trade skills, with new recipes and deliberate ",[32,214,215],{},"cross-linking",": to craft something you may need another player. Two concrete examples given are using a workbench someone else placed at a campsite, and applying an enchantment directly without a Vellum Scroll.",[24,218,219,220,226],{},"That is a structural change to how Classic crafting works, and it is the design half of the Camping system Blizzard documented in its own ",[128,221,225],{"href":222,"rel":223},"https:\u002F\u002Fworldofwarcraft.blizzard.com\u002Fen-us\u002Fnews\u002F24301516",[224],"nofollow","campfire article"," — a Basic Campfire takes three profession objects, one contribution per player, and sitting at one for a minute grants the buffs for an hour. Read together, the intent is clear: the professions are not solo gold engines first, they are a reason to stop and deal with a person.",[48,228,230],{"id":229},"trinkets-bags-and-the-storage-problem-they-know-about","Trinkets, bags and the storage problem they know about",[24,232,233,234,237],{},"Zierhut describes trinkets whose strength depends on ",[32,235,236],{},"the type of creature you are fighting or the environment you are in",", with the goal being a bag of situational tools rather than one best-in-slot. He volunteers the downside himself — \"oh my gosh, I have 50 different trinkets in my bag\" — and says the team will keep watching storage, noting that banks are already larger than they were at the start of Classic Era.",[24,239,240],{},"That is a promise about a problem that has not happened yet. Forever has no launch date for a bag upgrade, and no published inventory roadmap.",[48,242,244],{"id":243},"the-map-they-built-and-are-not-opening","The map they built and are not opening",[24,246,247,248,251],{},"This is the most interesting part of the interview and the part with the weakest sourcing, so be precise about it: everything in this section appears ",[32,249,250],{},"only in IGN's account",". We could not corroborate it anywhere else.",[253,254,255,265,271,280,302],"ul",{},[74,256,257,260,261,264],{},[32,258,259],{},"Gilneas"," — the terrain for the Cataclysm worgen starting zone already exists in the Forever world. You cannot get in. Zierhut's joke when asked about it: ",[27,262,263],{},"\"Sharks will eat you.\""," They want to tell a pre-Cataclysm Gilneas story eventually.",[74,266,267,270],{},[32,268,269],{},"Silvermoon and Quel'Thalas"," — Jones confirms they exist in the time bubble, but the team is deliberately not going there yet because retail is currently telling its own Silvermoon story. Zierhut's framing is avoiding telling the same story in two products at once.",[74,272,273,276,277,279],{},[32,274,275],{},"Mount Hyjal"," — confirmed as a level-60 zone, and explicitly ",[27,278,138],{}," the Cataclysm version: no flying, a long walk up the mountain, and no Firelands, so the whole lava-covered extra area is free to build in. He describes recognisable call-outs to the Hyjal raid, including Azgalor's skull on the ground.",[74,281,282,285,286,289,290,293,294,297,298,301],{},[32,283,284],{},"On the wishlist, with no commitment",": the ",[32,287,288],{},"Emerald Dream",", ",[32,291,292],{},"Grim Batol"," (which he wants to explore properly — depths and towers, the way Blackrock Mountain works — rather than as a single Cataclysm dungeon), the ",[32,295,296],{},"Caverns of Time",", and more of the ",[32,299,300],{},"Dire Maul \u002F Shen'dralar \u002F Prince Tortheldrin"," story, which he says Chris Metzen has had ideas about for years.",[74,303,304,307,308,311],{},[32,305,306],{},"Outland, Northrend and Pandaria"," exist and could host \"minor forays\" — one dungeon, or a quest that sends you out and brings you back — but Zierhut is explicit that this is not happening soon. Outside Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor there are no capital cities, no auction houses, no innkeepers. ",[27,309,310],{},"\"You always come home.\""," Massively OP's independent write-up of the same interview carries that quote too, which is the one place where two newsrooms agree on the boundary.",[48,313,315],{"id":314},"two-smaller-things-worth-knowing","Two smaller things worth knowing",[24,317,318,321],{},[32,319,320],{},"The graphical work is not Forever-exclusive."," Zierhut says the lighting, shadow and water improvements shipping in Forever will also come to retail later, with no date given. He also pushes back on the \"spaghetti code\" characterisation of the WoW engine, arguing it has been continuously improved for 25 years.",[24,323,324,327,328,332],{},[32,325,326],{},"Some of your addons are now the default UI."," Damage meters and the Cooldown Manager are built in. The stated line is that Forever uses plenty of modern UI conveniences but that the UI should still feel like a classic game and not a copy of the retail interface — which matches what we found in the ",[128,329,331],{"href":330},"\u002Fresources\u002Fguides\u002Fwow-forever-beta-addons-what-works","beta addon census"," back in September.",[24,334,335],{},"On griefing and the naming disputes that dominated the beta, Zierhut's answer is \"pro-social design\": build enough positive interactions that hostile ones become the minority. He named camping, group quests and elite quests as the mechanisms. It is a philosophy answer; no enforcement tooling was described.",[24,337,338],{},[339,340],"img",{"alt":341,"height":342,"loading":343,"src":344,"width":345},"Editorial illustration: two figures at a drafting table beside a half-unrolled map of two continents, one coastline inked in and others left blank, a sealed gate drawn on the parchment",1024,"lazy","https:\u002F\u002Frealmlist.org\u002Fimages\u002Farticles\u002Fbriefings\u002Fforever-designers-on-the-record-zierhut-jones.webp",1536,[24,347,348],{},[27,349,350],{},"Original editorial illustration by RealmList, generated for this article. This is artwork, not game footage or official promotional material.",[352,353,354],"note",{},[24,355,356],{},"Verified on November 3, 2026. This article is a collation of an interview IGN published on October 27, 2026 with principal game designer Kris Zierhut and lead Classic designer Tim Jones — it is not same-day news, and we are flagging the interview date rather than presenting it as a launch-eve statement. The four design pillars, the Hardcore inspiration, the \"unsolve the game\" framing, dual spec at launch with per-point respecs rejected and a third spec left open, the profession cross-linking and campsite workbench, the creature-type and environment trinkets, the storage caveat, the Gilneas \u002F Silvermoon \u002F Hyjal \u002F Emerald Dream \u002F Grim Batol \u002F Caverns of Time material, the \"minor forays\" wording, the retail graphics comment and the built-in damage meter and Cooldown Manager all come from that single interview. 17173 published a Chinese account of the same interview on October 28 that matches IGN on the dual-spec, trinket and pro-social passages; because it is coverage of the same conversation rather than a second interview, we are not counting it as independent evidence. Massively OP's October 28 write-up is independent reporting on the same interview and independently confirms only the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor boundary, the no-new-capital-cities quote and the housing \u002F Silvermoon status; it does not cover the rest. Cross-checks from Blizzard's own material: dual specialization at level 40 and trainer-based respecs come from the official September 30 class deep dives; the 10 \u002F 20 \u002F 40 raid sizes come from the official raid overview; the campsite rules come from the official Camping article. The Chris Gierach statement about deliberately hiding dungeon and raid loot is from the separate October 29 Gamemeca roundtable, not from this interview. Forever launches November 4, 2026 at 3:00 p.m. PST; no raid has been fought on live servers, no post-launch update has a date, and every statement here about how the game plays is intent rather than measured behaviour.",{"title":358,"searchDepth":359,"depth":359,"links":360},"",2,[361,362,363,364,365,366,367,368],{"id":50,"depth":359,"text":51},{"id":105,"depth":359,"text":106},{"id":142,"depth":359,"text":143},{"id":173,"depth":359,"text":174},{"id":204,"depth":359,"text":205},{"id":229,"depth":359,"text":230},{"id":243,"depth":359,"text":244},{"id":314,"depth":359,"text":315},"briefings","In a long interview published October 27, days before launch, principal game designer Kris Zierhut and lead Classic designer Tim Jones set out four design pillars, said the team wants to \"unsolve\" a game players have already solved, explained why endgame runs at 5, 10, 20 and 40 players, described professions that force you to work with other players, and named the places that exist in the world but are not open: Gilneas, Silvermoon, the Emerald Dream and Grim Batol.",false,"md",{},true,"\u002Fresources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fforever-designers-on-the-record-zierhut-jones","2026-11-03",{"title":18,"description":370},{"loc":375,"images":379,"changefreq":381,"priority":382},[380],{"loc":344},"weekly",0.7,[384,387,390,393,396,399,402,405],{"label":385,"url":386},"IGN — The Big World of Warcraft Forever Interview With Blizzard (Jacqueline Thomas, October 27, 2026; Kris Zierhut and Tim Jones)","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.ign.com\u002Farticles\u002Fworld-of-warcraft-forever-launch-interview-blizzard-azeroth",{"label":388,"url":389},"17173 — 《World of Warcraft Forever》深度专访：暴雪揭晓其下一款伟大 MMO 的计划 (Chinese account of the same IGN interview, published October 28, 2026)","https:\u002F\u002Fnews.17173.com\u002Fcontent\u002F10282026\u002F021611999.shtml",{"label":391,"url":392},"Massively Overpowered — World of Warcraft Forever's designers talk about patch cadence, future plans, and philosophy (Eliot Lefebvre, October 28, 2026)","https:\u002F\u002Fmassivelyop.com\u002F2026\u002F10\u002F28\u002Fworld-of-warcraft-forevers-designers-talk-about-patch-cadence-future-plans-and-philosophy\u002F",{"label":394,"url":395},"Gamemeca — WoW: Forever \"We hope you enjoy a leisurely adventure rather than rapid growth\" (October 29 media roundtable, Chris Gierach and Nora Mills)","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.gamemeca.com\u002Fen\u002Fview.php?gid=1782594",{"label":397,"url":398},"Blizzard Entertainment — WoW: Forever Class Deep Dive, Hunter and Druid (official, September 30, 2026; dual specialization at level 40, respecs at a class trainer)","https:\u002F\u002Fworldofwarcraft.blizzard.com\u002Fen-us\u002Fnews\u002F24301515",{"label":400,"url":401},"Blizzard Entertainment — WoW: Forever Class Deep Dive, Priest and Warrior (official, September 30, 2026)","https:\u002F\u002Fworldofwarcraft.blizzard.com\u002Fen-us\u002Fnews\u002F24301514",{"label":403,"url":404},"Blizzard Entertainment — World of Warcraft: Forever Raid Overview: Locations, Raid Sizes, and Attunement (official; Barrow Deeps 10, Hyjal Summit 20, Onyxia's Lair 40)","https:\u002F\u002Fworldofwarcraft.blizzard.com\u002Fen-us\u002Fnews\u002F24303009",{"label":406,"url":222},"Blizzard Entertainment — Gather Around the Campfire in World of Warcraft: Forever (official, October 8, 2026; the Camping system)","resources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fforever-designers-on-the-record-zierhut-jones",[409,410,411,412,413],"WoW Forever","Blizzard","Interview","Design","Launch",null,"Ok4LkiNfNojhswzT6Us6YUtOijRlA2jN7RLgfIctB9A",[414,417],{"title":418,"path":419,"stem":420,"description":421,"children":-1},"Four Days Before Launch, Forever Rewrites Paladin, Druid and Mage Talents — With No Way to Test Any of It","\u002Fresources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fforever-pre-launch-class-rework-october-31","resources\u002Fbriefings\u002Fforever-pre-launch-class-rework-october-31","A client diff dated October 31 shows Forever rebuilding all three Paladin trees, deleting Berserk from Feral, giving Wild Growth a three-second cast, restoring Ice Lance to 300% on an eight-second cooldown, and moving Shadow Word: Death backlash to 30% of max health. There is no blue post, no patch note and no test window. Here is the full change list, what reverses an earlier October decision, and where our two sources disagree.",1793638524415]